Publish, Promote, and Profit with Rob Kosberg

Jake Randall
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Jake Randall: Okay, everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Profit Junkie Podcast, where we talk about increasing your sales and making sure that you keep as much of your hard-earned cash in your bank account as humanly possible. Today I’m super excited to introduce you to a gentleman who I think can really change your business. Today I have Rob Kosberg on the show with me today, and he is the founder and CEO of Best Seller Publishing. He has an incredible story to tell you, and I just am so … Thanks for being here, Rob.

Rob Kosberg: Great to be with you. Excited to see what direction this goes. And I love profits, so I’m a profit junkie too.

Jake Randall: That’s great. Awesome. We should make little pins for our guests, then.

Rob Kosberg: Heck yeah, man. Absolutely. That should be a hashtag.

Jake Randall: So for those people that maybe don’t know you, you have a pretty cool story. Do you want to give us a quick story of where you got today, how you got into this business, and your background?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah, happy to. I don’t know how cool it is. It’s awful painful, but I get what you’re saying. It’s ended up pretty good. But no, I’ve always been an entrepreneur. I got involved in real estate when I was 18 years old with my dad. Was in real estate for a long, long time. In the early 2000s I owned three real estate related companies. I was a title insurance agent, did closings, also a big mortgage company for 20 years, and real estate. And very successful right until the time I wasn’t. Those companies were doing 100 million a year in transactions. A lot of money, a lot of closings, and of course the financial crisis absolutely crushed us. Honestly, it’s kind of interesting. It was a little bit of golden handcuffs. I was making so much money, but I wasn’t thrilled with the business. I was kind of bored with it after all those years. Now that’s not the way I wanted to exit, but the exit gave me an opportunity to do something totally different.

Long story short, I started a financial services company, which probably was too closely related to real estate. But that was also the reason that I did it, is because of the experience. And it was right in the heart, 2008, of the financial crisis, and I had some pretty good mentors. I’ve always believed in mentorship. So I asked my mentors what I should do to really grow my business, build authority, really … because I had been in real estate for all these years. That’s where people knew me. And two really high-profile mentors that I had both suggested I write a book. I’d never thought of that before, but it seemed to ring true to me.

So I made every mistake imaginable. I wrote a book. I wrote actually the red book up there, Life After Debt, and that book soared. It exploded, became the number one book, nonfiction book on all of Amazon when we launched it. Number 12 in the entire Amazon store. The top 11 were all fiction. And it exploded my business. I did a million in personal income right in the heart of the financial crisis, 2009. My business was exploding, and everybody else’s businesses at that time were blowing up. So people just started coming to me asking me, “Hey, how are you doing it? Can you help me?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” I mean, maybe I just got lucky. I don’t know. Anyway, Best Seller Publishing was born kind of out of that success. Anyway, that’s the highlights of it, and a little long perhaps, but the highlights.

Jake Randall: No, that’s great. So let’s talk about writing a book. I think that there’s a lot of people, I’m not going to name names, but Trenton in my office right here. He just told me he’s been working on a book, or has a book idea. I think a lot of people love the idea of being a published author, but I think a some people have a little bit of trepidation. I don’t know, but when you’re talking to people, what advice do you give to somebody? Well, first let’s back up and let’s talk about why should somebody write a book.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. Good question. There’s lots of reasons why someone should. Most of the people that we help, we ghostwrite. So I have a team of a dozen writers. Most of them are screenwriters here in Los Angeles, award-winning. So we ghostwrite, we publish, we do book launches. We even get our clients on TV, radio, media. Everything from the Howard Stern Show to Jenny McCarthy, you name it.

So why should someone? Well, it’s varied. Right? Sometimes it’s as simple as I really want to tell my story for other people. I want my kids to know, I want my family to know, et cetera, the story. Future generations. I’d say that that is 2, or 3, or 4% of the business that we do. Most of the people that come to us want to make money. They want to use their book to increase their authority, to close deals easily, to generate leads, to get speaking engagements, that sort of thing.

So if you’re an expert, like a coach, a consultant, a brick-and-mortar business owner, then you’re in competition. Right? You’re a financial advisor, you’re in competition with every other financial advisor. If you’re a realtor, you’re in competition with every other real estate agent in the area. What is going to set you apart on that listing presentation? What’s going to set you apart when it comes time to close the deal? So the book is that differentiator for people.

Jake Randall: Yeah. It’s like instant credibility, right?

Rob Kosberg: It is. I mean, it’s hard, man, to write a book. I mean, if you’ve ever tried, I mean, it’s hard. Even with expert help, it’s really difficult. So when you’ve accomplished that, you’ve accomplished something really great for yourself. But also other people have tried, and they’re really accomplished, and they’re like, “Man, I haven’t been able to do it, and this person has, so they’ve done something pretty awesome.”

Jake Randall: Yeah, that’s great. Then you talked about the … I mean, you kind of bullet pointed some lists, but maybe I’d love to hear some examples or something … Let’s say I’m thinking about writing a book. Right? So I get my book written. Well first of all, let’s talk about the trepidation of writing a book. How does somebody get over that, well, maybe imposter syndrome of, “Well, why me? Why should somebody listen to me, or read my book?” Do you have any thoughts on how somebody can overcome that?

Rob Kosberg: That is a big issue for people that are writers or authors. They’re stuck in perfectionism mode many times. So a lot of people come to us with just volumes of material, and they’ve just edited and edited and edited, and they just won’t stop. So we have to help them to overcome that. I would say though, that that’s not the majority. That’s the majority of people that are already writers. I’m more pragmatic. I mean, we’ve done 1,000+ books now for US ambassadors, to Fortune 500 CEOs, to plumbers and roofers. Right? The whole gambit. But I’m pragmatic. For me it’s about making money. It’s about how do we use the book to make a profit. Right? We’re profit junkies.

So for my average client, they’re not writers. Right? So oftentimes they’re not stuck on the issue of the perfectionism until later on, and then they have to overcome that. But we help them with that. For our client it’s more like, can a book help me to make more money? How can it help me make more money? And then why the heck don’t I have a book, because it’s clear that it can help me do A and B?

So it’s more just connecting the dots for people. They’ve always had in the back of their mind, perhaps, “You know, I should do it one day, and I think it could really help me.” But when you really connect the dots and look at, in every industry, those that are at the top of their field are authors. Period. It doesn’t matter if they’re in leadership, in sales, in real estate, in finance. Makes no difference. Authors are the ones that are at the top of the feed, and the ones that write the most books tend to remain there. So when you kind of connect the dots for people, they’re like, “Holy cow, that’s true. And how can I do it?” And that kind of motivates them to get over the hump.

Jake Randall: That’s awesome. Is there a type of businesses that maybe shouldn’t write a book? Let’s just kind of brainstorm one, maybe two. I’m putting you on the spot right now. Is there a place for, let’s say I’m a plumber and I operate in a local area. Is there a reason to write a book for me as a plumber?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah, totally is. Absolutely. Plumbers make a lot of money. I mean, if you’ve ever had a plumbing problem and you invite her plumber to your house, hold onto your wallet. Right? Because you’re about to get smacked with a pretty big bill. So plumbers make a lot of money, and so absolutely. Here’s the way I would differentiate it for you, because there are certainly businesses that probably have no business writing a book. Here’s the way to differentiate it. Differentiate it based on what an average customer is worth to you. So if you’re selling something really low-ticket, if you’re a balloon salesman, right? Or if you’re selling tchotchkes, or have a retail store, then probably no. If your average ticket is 20 bucks, 30 bucks, 50 bucks, 80 bucks, no. It’s going to be too hard to write a book that actually you can monetize significantly quickly.

However, a plumber, they can have an average ticket of 1,000 bucks, or 1,500 bucks, or 2,000 bucks. So if that book can get them three or four extra clients in a month, well holy cow. I mean, all you have to do then is replicate that, and help people to find ways to use the book to create that authority and that even celebrity. Right? I mean, there are plumbers that are celebrities in their niches. Right? I mean literally, you hear them on the radio, and they’ve got the funny radio ad, they have raised their presence in the marketplace to authority. So if you’re selling anything high-ticket, then a book will help you to sell more of it. Period. If it’s low-ticket, nah, go sell something better.

Jake Randall: I’m trying to think of a … I know we’re kind of just brainstorming and having fun with it, but I’m just trying to think. I just started wondering about maybe a plumber could write a book about the funniest plumbing stories or something like that. Or I don’t know what that would be, but something to get out there. Right? And get it in front of people.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you’ve ever watched … Of course you’ve watched Christmas Vacation. We’re coming to that time of the year. Remember when he’s out front with the RV and he’s like, “Yeah,” and he’s dumping the sewage in the drain. I mean, you could do a lot of funny things. I mean, there has to be an educational value. You can’t be just funny stuff, because people will want it for the educational value. But I mean, look, we’ve done books for plumbers and they’ve done really, really well with it. We’ve done books for vets and you name it, but there has to be a plan surrounding the book, how it’s going to be used.

Here’s what I tell people. I’m like, “Look, if you’re coming to us thinking that just selling this for even $24.95 is what’s going to make you rich, then you’re wrong.” Right? So anybody that just thinks the book is what’s going to make me rich is wrong. They’re being shortsighted. No, the book is the cheapest way people can enter your world. But when people enter your world this inexpensive way, you’ve now captivated them and you’ve positioned yourself as an authority to get them to write you bigger checks. That’s the whole idea. And if you’re selling balloons, you can’t get bigger checks. Right? If you’re selling low-ticket. But if you have something that’s valuable and high-ticket, you can get it.

Jake Randall: So we wrote a book for our business, and it’s been a real game changer for us.

Rob Kosberg: Well, there it is.

Jake Randall: We have a personal witness to you guys that it’s a real … definitely can make a big difference in your business. But think that, well, I wanted to kind of pick a plumber because I think some people think, “Well, there’s not a place for me or my business.” But I think there probably this for any business. Well, most businesses, except for the ones you identified.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. just think high-ticket. If you have something for sale that’s $1,000 or more, then you can get a book to help you to sell more of that. Then you just have to do the math. How many of them do I have to sell to pay for itself? I mean, one good book can … You can write it for a decade. I mean, you really can. You don’t have to write a new book. I do for my businesses, but you don’t have to write a new book every six months. You can ride one great book for a long, long time.

Jake Randall: I just had it. I just had it. So I’m thinking the plumber still. How cool would it be? Let’s say you’re a plumber. Right? How cool would it be is if you come and fix my drain and I leave you a book from the founder or whatever that talks about common things that they can do around the house to … maybe handyman type work, or maintenance. It doesn’t have to be about plumbing, but that’s a book that now sits on that shelf. So when the next time they need a plumbing issue, “Oh that guy gave us a book. He’s the only plumber that’s ever given us a book.” Right?

Rob Kosberg: And no, there’s a lot of truth in that. The funny thing about even a book from a plumber is, when was the last time you threw a book in the garbage can?

Jake Randall: So true.

Rob Kosberg: Right? I mean, you can’t. There’s something about, you can’t throw this away. It’s too valuable. So even after I hand you the book, you may look at it and go, “What the hell am I going to do with a book about plumbing? I have no interest in that.” But you can’t throw it in the garbage. So what do you do? You put it up on the shelf somewhere, and you’re right. It lives there. So it’s not going to sell a million copies on Barnes & Noble. That’s not where the money is going to come from. It’s going to come from another place.

Jake Randall: Yeah. And that’s so important. I think it’s a great point, because I think too many people write the book and think that’s their meal ticket. But their meal ticket’s going to be something else that comes out of that.

Rob Kosberg: Yep. 100%.

Jake Randall: That’s great. So let’s talk about your guys’ process, because you guys do a ton of this. So let’s say I was going to sign up, and I wanted to have this idea for a book. I don’t have time to write it necessarily, or maybe I’m not confident in it. Walk me through what you guys do for your clients, and how that process goes. That’s pretty cool.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. So let’s say we’ve talked to somebody that clearly a book would be helpful for them. Because not everybody we talk to, that’s the case. Right? We get people that come to us that want to write a poetry book and sell a million copies, and we’re like, “We don’t want to crush your spirit here. Go ahead and do that, but you don’t need to write us a big check to help you to do that.” So let’s say we found an expert, or a coach, or consultant, or a CEO of a company that wants to use their book, and they don’t know where to begin. That’s the challenge, right?

So the way our process works is, the first step is we always have to do a deep dive into who the customer is of the client. We want to really create a great customer avatar. So we look at the demographics, the psychographics, and do kind of a deep dive study with our client into the wants and aspirations, fears and frustrations of this client. Because we want to create, with our project management team, we want to create a hook, a title, a subtitle, and a table of contents that speaks really narrowly to their ideal client. Right? If you’re a plumber, you don’t want to write a book on success secrets. Right? Because what does that have to do with plumbing? You want to write a book that that’s called, again using Christmas Vacation, the title might be Shitter’s Full. I mean, just something crazy or funny. The 18 Different Things That You Can Do to Prevent Plumbing Issues in Your Home. Right?

So to craft all of that, we want to do a deep dive into who the customer is and really figure out, as Dan Kennedy would say, the conversation that’s going on in that customer’s head so that we can enter that. So we brainstorm. First thing we do is brainstorm the hook, the title, the subtitle. Then the next step is the table of contents, and we want that entire skeleton in place before the writer is ever introduced to the customer. That actually is, quite honestly, that’s the opposite way most people approach writing a book. Most people approach writing a book and they’re told by the gurus, “Hey, just start writing. Just get yourself into the habit of writing, and write daily.” Let me tell you, if you do that, you’re going to have a lot of material. It’s going to be disjointed. You may have a lot of good blog posts or Facebook posts, but you’re not going to have a book. You have to map it out before you ever put pen to paper for the first word.

Jake Randall: Yeah. I love that, because you’re actually writing this to generate business. So you’re writing it to the person who you want to sell something to eventually. Right? And I think so many people just kind of think of it as an artistic expression, or a memoir of their life, and that’s not really what you’re looking for.

Rob Kosberg: Unless that’s what they want to do. Right? I would never discourage anybody from writing their book of poetry. Write. I mean go for it, but don’t expect to make any money from it. Write for whatever your reasons are to write, but if you want to make money from your book without just crossing your fingers. “Oh please, let it be a lottery ticket. Let it be the next Fifty Shades of Grey.” That’s not going to happen. It happens less than a lottery ticket winner.

But if you want to make money with your book and you’re in the expert space, or you’re a business owner, or a solopreneur of some kind, you can totally do it. But you have to have a plan to do it, and your book can make you millions of dollars. I mean, this book. This is my latest book. It’s been out for about a year and a half. We’ve brought in over $3 million in customers from this book alone in the last roughly 14, 15 months. Just from this book, not from our other methods. Why? Because we eat our own cooking. Right? There’s a process that if someone follows, they can do it.

Jake Randall: So you’ve determined I’m a good customer. We’ve done it. You get a deep dive on the customer, and then what happens in your process?

Rob Kosberg: Well after we nail the hook, the title, have a good working title, the subtitle, then we want to build out the full table of contents. There’s kind of three primary ways, and you can also blend them, but there are three primary ways to create your table of contents. Most business owners, we suggest they create their table of contents what we call segmentation by content. And segmentation by content is again, using mine as an example, so most business owners have a model of their business. This is the first thing that we do. This is the second thing we do. This is the third thing we do to success. So mine are publish, promote, profit. The model is a triangle. So my book is segmented, my table of contents is segmented by having a preface, an introduction, and then three chapters on publish, three chapters on promote, three chapters on profit. Actually, I think it’s five chapters on profit. Then a conclusion.

So there’s other ways to do it. There’s creating content in a linear fashion, which is what most people default to. That’s kind of the worst way. That’s like, “Here’s the first thing I did, and here’s what happened when I was 12, and here’s what happened when I was 13. Here’s what happened when I was 15.” That’s the worst way to do it, because that can be kind of boring. That’s more about you than it is about the reader. Right? When you segment it by the content then it’s more about the reader, and it also allows them to skip around. So we craft the bones, the table of contents, and then the next step is turning it over to our writing team to get the content from the author. And I can walk you through how we do that, because that’s something that can be imitated as well.

Jake Randall: Yeah, that’d be awesome. I want to make sure we get through all of them, but just real briefly, maybe your high level. If I’m coming to you and I’m not really comfortable with my writing and every stuff, I know you have ghostwriters. So how do you then take that, get that out of my head and onto the paper?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. It’s not as easy as you might think. Of course, I don’t know if you think it’s easy or not. One of the big mistakes I made when I wrote my first book was I hired a ghostwriter, and I didn’t know anything about anything. I just knew I wasn’t a daily writer. So what did I do? I wrote a big check to a ghostwriter, and I hired a ghostwriter, and traditional ghostwriting works like this. It’s an interview process, like this is. Right? Where they ask a question, then they ask the next question that it leads to, and then they ask the next question. What you get from that is content, but oftentimes you don’t get any context. Meaning that the context itself is found in the story, or the case study, or the example. That also creates excitement and momentum when you’re reading a book. Right? It’s easier to create some context in a video and in a podcast, but it’s harder when someone is reading in that Q&A.

So that was a big failure for me, and I ended up having to write this book myself, and I took a major hit. But I realized, “Okay, there’s something broken about this process.” So we kind of developed our own process, and here’s the best way to describe it. If you’ve ever watched a great TED talk or TEDx talk, the best ones are all kind of modeled the same way. The first thing the speaker does is start telling a story, and they capture your interest in that story. Then after three, four, five minutes, oftentimes they don’t culminate the story. They leave an open loop, and then they go into the main points. “So here’s what I learned about this tragic event in my life. I learned this, and I learned this, and I learned this.” And they go into the points. Then they come back around and they close the loop, and they tell the rest of the story. They culminate it, and they close it. And they do all of that in about 17 minutes.

Well, that’s actually a great length of a chapter. So when our clients create content for their chapter, we map out … We have something called a chapter creator, where we talk them through the story they’re going to tell. And it could be three stories, not just one, but at least the story they’re going to tell. We talk them through the open loops, we talk them through the main points from that particular chapter, and then how they’re going to conclude it. And we add one more thing that you can’t do with a TED talk, which is next steps. The next steps, we always want to take people from the book to our website, or to a form to fill out, or to a free gift. So then we go into the next steps of the chapter. Then our client will talk that, will speak that in an interview just like this with a ghostwriter, and we get all of the content and context.

Now, we speak differently than we write. So we speak in long run-on sentences like I’m doing right now, and we write in short, punchy sentences. So it all has to be rewritten and edited, but you at least have the context as well as the content in that method.

Jake Randall: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And then let’s talk a little bit about the promotion. Once you have a book, let’s say we’re done with the book. I think maybe that’s the piece that maybe most people are wondering about.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. Most people get excited about the promotion.

Jake Randall: Right. But talk to me about different ways that you’ve seen people successfully promote their book.

Rob Kosberg: Well I can talk about what we do, because we have a methodology. I still see people do book signings and stuff, which is all ego-based. Right? I can get in front of more people on Facebook in 10 minutes than I ever could in three book signings at Barnes & Noble that will take me a week to do. So that’s more about ego, quite honestly, than it is about actually marketing your book.

So most of what we do is via online. So we do a significant book launch for our clients. We do it in two steps. What we call a soft launch, and then the hard launch. The soft launch is basically, we want as many Amazon-verified reviews of this book in the first two or three weeks as possible. So we reduce the price of the digital version to 99 cents. We don’t do a big marketing push to the world. We don’t want to get it to the world yet. We only tell our clients to go to their inner circle, their friends, their family, their sphere of influence, their clients, their past clients, and basically say, “Look, I’ve just launched my book. It’s not for sale to the whole world. I’ve reduced the price 95% because I want to give it to you. I want you to have it, and I don’t want money to be a barrier, but I do have a favor to ask of you. I want you to read two or three chapters. That’s it. And give me a review based on the two or three chapters that you’ve read.”

Now you’ll ask your mom, your aunt, your sister, your brother. They’ll all say, “Of course I’ll give you a review,” and none of them will. Or one out of five of them will. That’s just the way it is. But if you connect with 100 people, you’ll get 20, 25 great reviews in a period of a week or two. That shoots up your credibility with Amazon, because they’re your partner. That shoots you up the rankings, because reviews are really, really hard to get, and gives a great foundation for the next step, which is what we call the hard launch. Anyway, that’s the first step of the process.

Jake Randall: That’s great. That’s really smart. I like that.

Rob Kosberg: You need reviews for credibility. I mean, you just do. The book has to be well-reviewed, and that doesn’t happen accidentally. It just doesn’t. Unless you have a massive audience, but most don’t.

Jake Randall: You got to make it happen. I love it.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. You have to have a plan to make it happen. Yep.

Jake Randall: I think that’s the most important part, is most people don’t realize that there’s a lot of methodology that you need. You need a plan for this kind of stuff. Right?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. Most people just push publish, and cross their fingers and hope it all works out. And it never works out that way. Unfortunately there’s some people out there that teach that you can just put it up there, and people will review it, and it just doesn’t happen like that. So the book looks dead. It actually can hurt your credibility more than it can help you. If you’ve got three reviews and they’re all one, two, three stars, oh my gosh, take it down. Remove it completely, because that hurts you. That doesn’t help you. I have a lot of people that come to me like that, and they think their book is doing good, and it’s not doing them any good.

Jake Randall: Yeah, that’s a good point. So obviously you’ve done this so many times for so many different people. What do you think the, I guess, the question that most people should be asking that they’re not asking when it comes to writing a book?

Rob Kosberg: This may surprise you, but I would say the biggest question that they don’t ask, and maybe that’s not even the proper way for me to phrase it. I’d say the biggest challenge maybe that they have is in the profit phase, and that is how am I really going to use this book to make money. What am I really going to do to add the book into my current marketing pieces, and what am I going to do differently with the book to blow the thing up?

And I think it’s because so many people come in thinking that the end of the road is, I wrote it. Like, it’s a miracle. I completed it. It’s amazing. Then they think the work is done, and no, no, no. The work’s just beginning. Now you have something, a great tool. Right? It’s like you bought a bulldozer, and that just sits in the backyard. Right? Or you bought a Ferrari and it just sits in the garage. No, the fun is in driving the Ferrari. You got to take it to the track. You got to work it. And I think a lot of people have Ferraris sitting in their garages, and they just expect it to get them what they want, and it doesn’t that way. It just sits there.

Jake Randall: Yeah. So you guys help people strategize on how to use that, right? Your clients.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. I mean, we have a threefold plan. Some that we do for our clients, some that we strategize and coach them on. So the three kind of very, very broad things that we call the profit phase are using the book for real media. So you can really blow up your business by getting on TV, radio, Howard Stern, the newspaper, magazines. I mean, people still read and watch all this stuff, right? Your ideal clients are somewhere. So media is important. You need to have a media plan, and most don’t. They’ve never been on media, so they don’t think of themselves as a personality that can be on media.

The next is the speaking engagements. The book is absolutely crucial to get booked on great speaking engagements. I don’t speak a lot personally. I have opportunities to, but I don’t like to travel except for fun. Right? So I have a speaking engagement coming up next week in Hawaii. Taking my wife to it. I did that same speaking engagement two years ago, and it was a six-figure speaking engagement. So I’ll go back, and it’s Hawaii. Why not, right? But I probably do three or four a year. So speaking is a part of it, and then the last and the biggest part is lead generation. How are you actually going to generate fresh, hot leads with your book? And there’s 1,000 ways to do it. You just need to pick your one, two, or three ways.

Jake Randall: Awesome. That’s great. Now, you have a book offer.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah, I’ve got a bunch. Yeah, I should, right?

Jake Randall: If somebody wanted to get a copy of your book, where should they go?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah, I mean look, we eat our own cooking. So Publish. Promote. Profit. is my latest book. I have a new one coming out in January, but my latest book Publish. Promote. Profit. anybody can get for free. They just have to pay a small shipping charge, because we ship it directly to them. And we’ve sold probably 20,000 in the last year and a half or so. They just got to go to, and they can get it there.

Jake Randall: Awesome. That’s great. Definitely go check it out. I think that you guys are going to learn a lot of information. If you’re interested in publishing a book, which I think everybody should at some point in their business career, definitely go check out that. That’s Start to follow Rob, and you will pick up some amazing nuggets of information.

I’ve got one sort of curve ball question for you that we always ask. What’s one thing you’re doing in your business right now, or that you’ve done in your business in the past, to make sure the more of the money that you’re bringing in the front door actually stays in the company so you’re profitable?

Rob Kosberg: Yeah, that’s good. That’s really hard for most entrepreneurs, right? Oftentimes we’re really good at making money, and not so good at keeping money. As I’ve gotten older, and you can tell by the gray here anyway, I don’t know if I’ve gotten wiser, but hopefully I have. I’d say the best thing that I’m doing, and have been doing the last couple of years, is I take money off the table every single week through a number of different ways of saving and investing. So every single week, I take a significant amount of money off the table. It disappears. It’s not money that I can touch in some way. It’s going into some type of annuity, or some type of offering, or something. That has really helped to grow my personal net worth. I don’t know if that answers the question.

Jake Randall: That’s great. So you’re making sure you’re taking money… kind of taking money out first, almost. Like a profit-first type of mentality.

Rob Kosberg: Yeah. I was actually even going to to say we do profit- first, and we kind of do a version of profit-first. But yes, I mean, that’s exactly what it is. It’s this company needs to pay me, and it needs to produce profit first that we can take off the table. And it has nothing to do with my lifestyle, or how I live. It has to do with the future for our family and our net worth. So that’s been the best thing that I’ve done.

Jake Randall: That’s awesome. So, great. Everybody should go check out, again, that website is And Rob, thanks so much for being a guest on the podcast today.

Rob Kosberg: Jake, hey, thanks for introducing me. Love it. Thanks for your questions. Really, really great.

Jake Randall: Awesome. Thanks, everybody. We will see you on the next episode. Awesome.

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